Friday, February 22, 2008

Axlerate - Open Quiz Results

Date: 22 Feb, 2008
Venue: Maharashtra Institute of Technology (M), Pune
Set by: Siddharth, Kaushik
Conducted by: Siddharth
Theme: General

Quiz Final Results
Format: 6 rounds in total. 5 on D&P (with round reversal) and one on identify with 3 clues (non-passing). One of the D&P round was an inverse frame-the-question-from answer round.

1st: Nikhil Motlag + Avanindra Bhargav (F) - 55
2nd: Yasho Tamaskar + Yash Marathe (B) - 40
3rd: Maitreyi Gupta + Salil Bijur (A) - 35
Joint 4th: Keyur Munot + Bharat Kandoi (C) - 15
Joint 4th: Abhishek Nagaraj + Nandan Gokhale (super-sub addition) (D) - 15
Joint 4th: Venkat Srinivasan + Suvajit Chakraborty (E) - 15

Report/Review/Post-quiz-notes in comments


Abhishek said...

hmm, this was probably another one of those quizzes which should've been college. Then the standards would've been acceptable. Unfortunately though the organizers tried, it was nowhere near Open quality. Here are a few observations.

1. Worst possible passing system. D&P 10 + 5.
2. Only 36 questions.
3. Uneven question difficulty. Add this to the fact that there were very few questions, it came to where you were seated.

There were IIRC 4/5 very good questions. Only they were lost amongst the many others.

But definitely a quiz which at least aimed to do the right things. That is the major positive to take out. And yeah, the elims was by and large pretty good.

Abhishek said...

That said, Nikhil + Avanindra deserved to win. I'm not so sure of the guys who came 2nd and 3rd ;)

yasho said...

I dint knw u were such a bad looser.. :D
Agree with most of what you said.

Yash Marathe said...

The clues round (whatever it was called) was a lottery. Teams A & B had easy questions IMO. The rest weren't too gettable on the first clue. I completely agree with most of Abhishek's remarks (except non-deserving 2nd & 3rd obviously :D)

the_harpooner said...

point taken. We shall improve the passing system, and keep IR to appease the BCQC:-)

the_harpooner said...

and that ridiculous id belongs to me, Kaushik

Ramanand said...

To Captain "Kaushik" Ahab: (some unsolicited advice) you don't have to employ anything to appease anyone. Just look at the available options, learn about all the criticisms for each, and make your own choices.

Harish Kumar said...

Kaushik - yes, I echo JR. Please don't incorporate things to appease people - esp. the BCQC gang. We(they) will never be happy.
Also, on the D&P - it is not as if any quiz which is not on IR is an illegitimate quiz. They are just different formats and there is no rule of life which states that quizzes should be fair.
Do your own thing.

Abhishek said...

@Harish : "there is no rule of life which states that quizzes should be fair."

But there is a rule to achieving perfection - It says "never stop trying"

GAWD! I sound like DDL at the Oscars today!

Ramanand said...

(Well, this is turning out to be a popular post!)
I disagree with Harish: a quiz should be as fair as possible. I don't like quizzes with D&P because they are very likely to be unfair, and I know this from personal experience. I will do my best to dissuade anyone from using that system in a 'proper' quiz, given that there are enough logical reasons to do so. But if someone wants to still do so, I will support his right to do so, while supporting my right to not be part of such quizzes if I can help it! The main reason for using D&P, imo, is ignorance of other systems and their benefits, so once the facts are placed in front of a person, I think he'd make the IR choice 9 times out of 10.

Anonymous said...

Maitreyi says:

I agree with the D&P part.. sore loser, abhishek! and we did not get easy questions

Abhishek said...

well it's time I cleared my name.

This is what I said,(simplified, but still restated)

"I'm not so sure of the guys who came 2nd and 3rd deserved it." I also put that stupid emoticon for the wink.

From where I come from, this implies the following things

1. I might be joking, at least partially.
2. I might be suggesting that there was no major difference between (other) teams apart from the luck of the draw.
3. I'm also implying that the team that won, would've irrespective of how things went with the draw.

It pains me that I've to put it this plainly, but I'm doing all of the above.

All counter-arguments to my email ID pls. We shall not sully ?! anymore!

D said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Harish Kumar said...

Had posted a long comment - it is not showing up. I'm getting worried that we at BCQC are not only recommending best practices to newbies to 'conform' to but also gagging the dissenting voice ;-) (For connotations of emoticon - please refer to Abhishek's previous comment)Will ty o re-write whatever I can.
If D&P is what makes a quiz more exciting - then so be it. A pre-req for having the IR is that all questions should be of equal level of toughness/difficulty. With so many chestnuts - refer other post on chestnuts - we know that IR is not 'fair'. Having *only* IR based quizzes is like saying we will play only Tests and only on sporting wickets, we shall not play ODIs, we shall not allow T-20s and we will definitely ban everyone who plays in the ICL.
The 'quizzers' have always tried to project that it is the questions which matter and not the final positions. Then having D&P/IR should not matter. If the final positions do matter, the QM should also look at what makes a quiz more exciting and add drama for the audience. The audience should *also* be considered when the QM is deciding on what suits best for a quiz. (This does not mean D&P is the way to go. All it means is that there are no rights/wrongs - the QM should look at what (s)he wants to achieve and opt for that which helps meet those objectives)One thing is for sure - if the QM bothers only about the participants on stage, you are doing a great disservice to the audience.
Abhishek - 'Fairness' (even if it is perceived and not true, even if it is a racist term) does not mean 'perfection'.
I believe we end up giving undue importance to things like IR/D&P/seating arrangement (I used to do it myself) and finally what matters is good questions and having 75-80% of the people present leave with a good taste in the mouth. If that means the finalists are the unhappy 10% - so be it. The problem here is that only the finalists usually come to this blog to give feedback. So if it is rave reviews on the blogs that matter then yes, the finalists should be the primary 'consumers' (I wouldn't agree with that though) and one should go with what they feel is the fair/perfect way to go about it.
BTW just decided on my next quiz - if I'm allowed to do one after this tirade - will not have IR. How many people reading this want to take part?

D said...

I also echo Ramanand and Harish somewhat in reverse order. I say make your choices first and stand by them. It would be good to learn about criticisms and differing tastes of audiences along the way. The horrific prospect of a fresh quizmaster turning out the DOB way is quite a potent threat once one starts following audience tastes and then making choices!

D said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
D said...

There is also the old rule no 1 of quizzing - the quiz master is always right, no matter what the answer. Of course, quizmasters empowered with that licence are usually gracious enough to admit when they are wrong. But the participants are implicitly bound to participate under the rules of the game

Kunal said...

>>Worst possible passing system. D&P 10 + 5.

So says the inventor of the Centaurian system ;)

George said...

Since this is a public squatting spot, I thought I'd just toss in something worthless: I've come to prefer IR ever since I heard of it and participated in my first quiz that used it. I think the lasting reason for this (at least for me) was relief from all the arithmetic tension in school quizzes that employed DnP (in the 10 + 5 sense) -- it's bad enough that you're up there on stage in some final, representing your school, trying to deal with stage fright, the lights and all those other things that don't seem to matter anymore; it's just terrible to have to answer more questions and end up not beating out a competing team that just sat and scored aces (woohoo! I used a sports term).

Ramanand said...

gagging of dissension will not happen as long as we can help it. conformity is ok but not blindly. This blog is ultimately meant for frank opinions and shall stay that way.
Also: even if quality of questions is undulating, I would still plump for IR, so that at least I see the same amount of action (in terms of #s of attempts) as others. If the quiz-setter has no conscious objective, then he is better off defaulting to IR. If s/he wants drama or whatever else, then can do other things as long as some thought is put to it. So I don't care if your next quiz has no IR as long as you know why you're doing so. Since a large part of our quizzes are the usual pass-the-parcel form, then one ends up needing to choose IR or D&P or variants. I just choose IR each time.

Also, spending excessive time on format etc may go over board, but 'good questions' is a much harder problem to solve, while formats are easier to think about. And we do equally waste a lot of time on discussing questions!

Only finalists come to comment. Disagree. Only the regular BC quizzers come to comment. And who among them gives rave reviews?!! ;-)

D: Taking the Harish route, D'OB's main constituency are his organisers and his audience, whereas in most cases the ordinary QM is one who not only organises quizzes but also participates in others, and so feels a greater affinity for the fellow quizzer. I think both of them can co-exist, but don't necessarily have to agree or even respect each other. But it would be nice to listen to all constituencies even if they cannot all be satisfied.

Harish Kumar said...

In spite of taking the credit for calling him Derek No Brain first(This may be a chestnut but I didn't hear anyone else use this before me) I have always enjoyed the BEQ.So I wouldn't call him evil as I don't recall any wrong answers in his quizzes.

Yash Marathe said...

(Going way off-topic) He (DO'B) doesn't have much of a brain though as you rightly put it. My cousin from Alphonsa School, Miraj was on the BQC a couple of years ago, but they had to represent "Alphonsa School, Maharashtra", because, according to DO'B, "There's no place called Miraj").
Yes, you *bleeped put word* there is, look at any decent map, it's right there.